Trade: Organized Chaos | Jobu Needs a Refill

Organized Chaos trades away
SS Carlos Correa ($103)
CF Cole Roederer (prospect)

Jobu Needs a Refill trades away
SS Royce Lewis (prospect)
3B Gio Urshela ($10)
CF Kyle Isbel

BAILEY’S THOUGHTS

This is a weird one.

I didn’t really understand the first Carlos Correa trade (for relatively cheap Freddie Freeman and cost controlled Dansby Swanson, where Correa also came with a sweet, sweet prospect) and I don’t get this one either. I’m mostly surprised there was a buyer for Correa. I like him, but he hasn’t topped 481 plate appearances since 2016. I think he’s an awesome player, but he’s just never been healthy enough to rely on and being 25-years-old is offset by costing $103 and being an easy greed target, so there’s seemingly no long-term value beyond 2020. If Jobu needs to re-sell him this season, he should have buyers (hand raised emoji here), but even then, is someone like Long Ball or TBD giving up a Royce Lewis caliber prospect plus other pieces to rent Correa for the rest of 2020? I doubt it.

I mean, the salary is fine if Correa’s a bonafied 600+ PA stud. But he’s not. Anthony Rizzo is being kept at $95 and that seems alright. I’m keeping Bryce Harper at $117 because, well, why throw him back to auction to maybe save $20 to redistribute to Michael Wacha? Chris Sale and Noah Syndergaard are on the trade block and priced similarly, but they somehow feel more reliable and impactful to me than Correa. Ultimately I think it’s okay to just build your best team possible for $500 and more or less ignore the individual salaries, but that sort of assumes your high salary guys are dependable. Like, Rizzo has topped 600 PA in seven straight years. If he gets hurt, that’d suck, but betting on his durability is a fairly safe bet.

I’m not a big Gio Urshela believer, but simply due to attrition, it wouldn’t shock me if Urshela outscores Correa in 2020. Or at least performs comparably. He won’t if they play the same number of games. But if Correa misses 50+ again, it seems possible.

Anyway, I do like that Jobu is attempting to field the best team possible in 2020. Prospects like Royce Lewis are rarely made available. So even if I don’t love the trade, I think it’s smart of Jobu to go against the grain and be the owner willing to make these guys available. If you’re okay saying that your entire prospect lot is not off limits, you can gain access to tons of actual major league points-scorers. Royce Lewis is, what… a top 10-15 prospect by most lists? So if he’s available and every other team is refusing to even discuss players if they’re on a top 100 list at all, maybe even top 150-200, you can potentially find an edge for yourself.

I’m also not quite sure how much I like Lewis. He was absolutely abysmal last year. The tools and the scouting reports are there and the lists love him, but how often do truly elite prospects have years as terrible as he just did? Having said that, the prospect love in this league suggests to me you could’ve gotten a massive haul for Lewis as soon as auction ended.

I have no idea who wins this trade. Probably Chaos. Although maybe not, since I still feel like if he rolled back that first Correa trade his team would be in a far better spot today.

HUSTLE’S TOXIC $0.02

I think Correa is a great player, obviously has injury risk and is expensive, but if he helps you compete and you have the cash, he’s great to have.¬† My main issue with this trade for Jobu is he waited until Late January to put up an elite asset¬† on the trade block in hopes of getting win now pieces. Strategically the move to get Correa for a prospect seems fine, and it doesn’t hurt that Lewis’ stock took a hit this offseason.¬† That being said, I feel like the return for Lewis could have probably been better if he was shopped earlier and multiple teams were still holding on to good expensive players.

Urshella was also someone who took¬† 2 2nd rounders and an OK prospect in¬† Alexander Vargas to acquire for JOBU.¬† So in order to get an over $100 dollar player it cost a super elite prospect and 2 2nd round picks (+Vargas).¬† That just hasn’t been the going rate for Correa in 5 years of this league, and i think I’m in a position to know having owned him for most of it.

That being said, JOBU clearly has set up his team to make a run for it this year and his team certainly got better with this deal.

Trade: Hustle Loyalty Respect | Organized Chaos

Organized Chaos trades away

Hustle Loyalty Respect trades away

  • SS Carlos Correa ($89)
  • SP Ian Anderson (prospect)
  • 2020 2nd Round Pick

Jordan’s Thoughts

I think most people look at trades and shake out roughly how they value players going each direction. Freddie Freeman is a great player at a valuable price. Carlos Correa is arguably a better player, at a more expensive price, however he spent half of this year hurt and he seems to be far from reliable.

Dansby Swanson is 25 years old now and just finished his 3rd straight professional season as a below average hitter. Dansby shows flashes of his capability as a hitter. But, I’m not as high on his future as some others are. If Swanson wasn’t a first overall draft pick, I’m certain people would have moved on from his status already.

Where do you land on Ian Anderson? As someone who’s traded him before. You kind of hate to lose the potential he brings. But, you know its fleeting. I think its way too early to truly call out a winner here for either side. I think given the contexts of each of the teams. I slightly prefer betting on Correa. That’s a gamble at best.

I guess at the end of the day I would have considered Freddie Freeman pretty much untradeable. He’s such a sturdy player to build around. Correa can be better. Ian Anderson might legendary. Fun trade!

BAILEY’S THOUGHTS

So where Hustle Loyalty Respect is seemingly giving points away by downgrading from Carlos Correa to Dansby Swanson, he’s also more than making up for that by going to Freddie Freeman from… uh, Garrett Cooper… as his 1Bman. To me, the gap between Correa and Swanson is palatable, especially when you bake in injury histories. The gap between Freeman and Cooper is enormous. Also HLR is saving $13, which is not quite nothing but mostly nothing. It also cost a pretty good pitching prospect and a 2nd round pick, so there’s that. I do know that lots of people have wanted Ian Anderson in trade in the last year or so. Ditto for Freeman. One interesting angle: HLR has had Correa on the trade block forever and he never got moved. Freeman, as best I can remember, has been untouchable. So I think out of Freeman and Correa, Freeman’s been the more coveted asset leaguewide, probably.

Anyway, ballparking it, I’d guess this is something like a 300-400 uptick in 2020 projected points for HLR. Possibly more. It’s a pretty big short-term win, I think. My numbers could also be way off because I did no actual math, yay!

For Organized Chaos, it’s weird in the sense that it subtracts that same amount of points and brings on a super high salary and I’m not totally sure why. If you’re giving up that many points, it signals you’re punting in 2020, but if you’re punting in 2020, Correa’s a weird guy to look to build around for 2021 just based on salary and how the league tends to view high salaries. He’s a great player if he’s giving you 7 points a game at $100 or whatever to keep, fine. My concern is that he’s played in just one full season and only played in 75 this year. Just strikes me as a big investment of talent and salary poured into a player that might not actually be reliable.

My guess would be that Chaos feels like sliding Pete Alonso from UT to 1B and then filling SS with Correa is his best bet moving forward in terms of filling his lineup and having flexibility. I’d still rather have the Freeman/Swanson side here and I don’t honestly think it’s too close, salaries and all that hoopla considered. I wonder what Chaos does from here. I feel like he needs to go add more pieces now.

You’re Welcome

THE PROCESS trades:                                     

SS- Dansby Swanson                                      

SP- Tyler Skagg                                                 

1B- Pavin Smith (A+)                                      

OF- Lazaro Armenteros (A+)

ORGANIZED CHAOS trades:

 SP- Matt Strahm

  2B/SS- Addison Russell

1B- THE Christian Walker

It’s difficult to review your own trade. You obviously made the deal to get something you want and are at least satisfied with the results. I have been know, in the past,¬† to decline trade offers with the question “why would I do that?” So for this trade review we will ask a similar question, “why would¬† they do that?”

THE PROCESS – I wanted Matt Strahm. Yes, he costs $45, has been homer prone lately, and recently looked terrible against the Marlins. I still think he’s the best player in this trade, pitches better moving foward, and, with my budget room, salary isnt a big consideration for the next couple years. This deal was basically Strahm for Dansby Swanson, who I have told others that I have a thing for, with other pieces included for roster considerations. Fernando Tatis JR, and Ketel Marte have made Swanson tradeable, but lets discuss those other pieces:

Addison Russell – I have always firmly believed in Humanistic Pscychology and am a big fan of Carl Rogers, who encourgaed helpers to accept people for who they are, meet them on their level, and work through personal biases… Even after doing that Addison Russell is still a shitty person. However, I think he’s still a solid fantasy backup middle infielder, with the potential to be more than that in the long run. Thank God this is just¬† fantasy, as a social worker I feel unclean owning him.

Christian Walker-  Walker was one of the hottest players to start the 2019 season. He then slumped mightly including a 3-for-44 stretch. Hes starting to show life again, averaging 10 points per game over the last week.  His 30% K rate means he likey wont enter 2020 as part of the Process, but Im hoping to ride a couple hot streaks along the way and sit him otherwise.

ORGANIZED CHAOS:  Why would he do that? Basically,  Swinson wanted Swanson.  He also  wanted a body at SP to fill in for Strahm, who Im assuming he has soured on after throwing three mulit-homer games in a row, including that aforementioned dud against the Marlin. As several of us know, he was also VERY motivated to move Christian Walker.

Dansby Swanson – Swanson was the first selection in the 2015 MLB draft. He peaked as the #4 prospect in 2016 at MLb.com, who at that time gave his hit tool a 60 grade with average pop in his bat. He currently is SS#12 in our league and averaging 5.67 points per game. He’s only 25 years old, with a Dynasty Grinders’salary of $5.¬† I think this is what Chaos can expect from him moving foward. I again assume that Chaos is expecting¬† more, and if he’s right could come out of this deal a winner.

Tyler Skaggs – In trade talks I’ve called Skaggs a “good pitcher.” I apologize for those I lied to. I dont think Coach Swinson was necessarily looking for a good pitcher, as much as a warm body to fill a rotaton spot. That’s what he got. Skaggs can be good at times, as he was for most of last season. He is probably a league average pitcher with the propensity for getting injured .

Pavin Smith РI spent a FYPD 1st round pick on Pavin Smith. He was well regarded coming out of the 2017 MLB draft and was taken #7 by the Diamondbacks. Smith is 23 in AA, with a career line of .270/.358/.404. I dont think he makes much of an impact unless he develops power to match his strong batting eye. I lost patience with him, and dont think I will miss him. Chaos gets a guy with a good pedigree and the abilty to take a walk. 

Lazaro Armenteros- It feels like we’ve been hearing about this guy forever, but he’s only 20. Ive seen Armenteros creeping up on some top prospects lists, and have heard some good things about his power. His K rate is currently 40%, leading me to believe he also wont be missed by The Process. I assume he’s just a flyer taken by Chaos.

SO WHO WINS?

This is a couple of medicocre teams, trading medicocre pieces. I got more current useful¬† pieces, so I feel good about my return. Coach Swanson got guys he likes, so he might argue the same… The real winners, Grinders, are YOU. I promise no more daily trade offers including Christian Walker. You’re Welcome.

 

 

Squids has himself a day

 

Long ball to LF (Johnnywise) trades away
Gordon, Dee

Senior Squids trades away
2019 Draft Pick, Round 2 (Senior Squids)

Bailey’s Take

This was a trade Squids just had to make. I really wouldn’t feel good about contending with Joe Panik as my only 2B. Dee Gordon is a little sketchy in our format because he offers no power, but neither does Panik. At least Dee gets on base pretty good and racks up steals, which aren’t really valuable but are better than nothing. Gordon always finishes among the top 2B scorers even if it isn’t always in game changing fashion. I wouldn’t be surprised if Panik gets dumped back to auction now.
Speaking of auction. Is Adam Jones kept at $39? I’m not sure. Gordon will be able to play CF too and while he won’t hit the homers Jones will, they’re roughly the same guy in our scoring when all is said and done.
Either way, this helps Squids at minimal cost. It gives him a relatively inexpensive, useful player that offers some options and flexibility. For LB, I assume this was a salary dump. So good for him too for turning a presumed cut into some future value. Maybe next year he can join the dark side and sell the pick for auction budget.
Hustle’s Toxic $.02
Overall this trade was pretty fine for both teams. I like it slightly more for Long Ball here. Gordon, like Brinson, has to be one of the most traded players in Dynasty Grinders history ( Jesus Sucre and Brian Shaw not counted). I think Gordon was likely headed back to the auction, so getting a 2nd round pick is a good haul for a cut. For Squids, supplanting Paniks production seems like a good idea at this point, and Gordon is a decent option.¬† I think if he would have held out until auction he could have got comparable production at 2b, but maybe not.¬† It’s hard to fault him for wanting to be prepared at each position before the auction.
Night King’s Undead Army¬†to¬†Senior Squids
($8) Gregorius , Didi for  $15

Bailey’s Take

Dansby Swanson has been a pretty big disappointment. Didi seems like a good upgrade over him. For basically $15 and a pick, Squids has pretty nicely upgraded his middle infield today.
For Jordan, eh, I don’t know. Getting Corey Seager maybe have rendered Didi useless, but I would’ve wanted actual talent back. Prospects, a cheap major leaguer, whatever.
Hustle’s Toxic $.02
So after an offseason of quite, Squids picked up Dee and Did in one afternoon. That’s 3 Ds. D-Von, get tables.
Anyway I like this trade for Squids more than the first. This reminds me of the Ferns deal with Bailey earlier offseason where he bought Mannea for 20.¬† Buying an $8 Didi for $15 is basically like paying $23 at auction for Didi, which I don’t think would be crazy if you didn’t have a SS. The upside is that squids only has to pay $10 for him next year, especially with¬† greed sponge Gary Sanchez on his roster. I don’t hate the trade for Jordan, I think it was a natural consequence of the Corey Seager deal which I did not like for Jordan. In fact, if Dejong does what he did last year, there’s no way Jordan is going to miss Didi at all.¬† $15 buys you a better need at auction, so I get it.

Trade: Rocky Mtn Oysters | Senior Squids

Rocky Mtn Oysters sends: CF/RF Bryce Harper ($109)
Senior Squids sends: SP Zack Greinke ($78)

Andrew’s thoughts:¬†It’s tough writing trade reviews sometimes because, as an owner, I occasionally have information and context to a trade or a player’s asking price behind closed doors that doesn’t really seem fair to publicize. That is true in this case. So I’ll be careful not to share how the information that I have influences my perspective of this trade. Let’s just say that I know what the asking price was for Bryce Harper, like, yesterday, and move on.

First of all, both these players are really good and quite valuable. I love Bryce and would give up essentially my entire team for him, $111 in 2017 be damned. I also love Greinke and at $78, he’s priced very well. He’s had a slow start to the season, but he truly is an ace of staff — and on the Oysters, joins Jake Arrieta and Max Scherzer in a horrifying trifecta of pitchers — that even at $80 next year doesn’t seem like a problem to keep.

I think my problem with this trade, as with Dusty’s first Bryce trade, is that pieces just seem to be lacking. The 1-for-1 is nice, simple, clean. And Bryce being traded three times suggests teams are scared of his salary. But I really don’t understand how you trade a transcendent, once in a lifetime talent twice and each time only get back a single pitcher. And you guys know how I feel about the value of pitchers. I just really feel like value is being left on the table.

I mean, Greinke is awesome and you could argue the top 8-10 pitchers or so make a greater difference to a team’s success than the top 3-4 hitters do. But how does Dusty not pry Dansby Swanson from the Squids here? How does he not get Hunter Renfroe and Carson Fulmer thrown in? How does he not get some draft pick conpensation? Is it that unreasonable to also get¬†Mark Trumbo or Kyle Seager back? Something else?!

Truthfully, I don’t hate the deal for either side and both teams may come out feeling alright. I just think, as Dusty does pretty regularly, the haste to get a flashy deal done quickly got in the way of sapping the most possible value out of his asset. And who knows, a week or two from now if Dusty’s great-on-paper squad keeps underperforming, maybe he’ll turn around and start unloading Arrieta, Scherzer, and even Greinke and just reshuffle the deck that way. Though this is twice now that Bryce has been traded for the bare minimum, so I would hope our stable of owners here are savvy enough to recognize that there’s a pattern here. Just wait it out, and eventually you can buy guys from the Oysters for a price that suits you best.

I don’t mean to beat on Dusty (again). I love that he can unleash those three aces on his opposition, plus deploy Kyle Hendricks and John Lackey on weeks where those guys only start once per week. But even that, I think, leads to an interesting point: how much pitching is too much, even in a format where they’re super valuable? I mean, isn’t having those five starters, plus quality arms in Collin McHugh just a big opportunity cost problem? In other words, did Dusty’s roster need Harper’s offensive production more than it needed Greinke? I think it probably did.

To date, the Oysters have been the second worst offense in the league… with Harper.¬†Dusty’s offense is now dramatically worse. I think another trade pretty much has to happen, and at what point are you chewing into values by making a thousand moves just to end up in roughly the same spot?

I don’t know. This deal is exciting and I love the rotation Dusty’s assembled, I just feel like Squids got off light here.

Jordan’s thoughts: Andrew just wrote so beautifully. I know RMO¬†could have gotten more. I know that Squids wasn’t getting more. Another head scratcher. I just have to shake my head and move on. There’s no reason here why Squids would say no to getting Bryce. There’s no reason Dusty should only ask for Greinke for Bryce. None. There’s been plenty of lopsided deals, but even at $111, Bryce is a value keeper piece next year. Just crazy.